Wednesday, August 22, 2007

WHENEVER W. COMPARES HIMSELF TO HARRY TRUMAN.....

........................ he brings to mind for me:

Lloyd Bentsen

26 Comments:

At 7:55 PM, August 22, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Did he do it again? Where?

 
At 9:27 PM, August 22, 2007, Blogger UMRBlog said...

1955,

Kansas City, Veterans', Multiple appellations.

Square Pegs, Round Holes.

TYFCB

 
At 3:45 AM, August 23, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

How does it bring Bensten to mind?

 
At 4:33 AM, August 23, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

You really don't see any parallels?

 
At 8:51 AM, August 23, 2007, Blogger UMRBlog said...

0433,

Only parallel I see is late term unpopularity.

Truman sent troops to defend a country (from an incursion south of the 38th parallel) with whom we had a treaty do so. Bush invaded a sovereign country that was living within its established borders. Truman had clearly articulated goals for his military action. Bush has never told us what the metrics of "victory" are. Truman had an activist, obstructive congress. Bush had a housepet for six years an inert sandbox for the last year.

There are virtually no military parallels.

TYFCB

 
At 8:52 AM, August 23, 2007, Blogger UMRBlog said...

0345,

I'm going to ask some other visitor to explain it to you because someone will accuse me of being mean if I do it. Somebody help here please.

TYFCB

 
At 11:24 AM, August 23, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

0345

It was back in 88, at a VP candidates debate on TV, Quail compared himself to JFK, ole Lloyd slapped him down, said "I knew Jack Kennedy, I served with Jack Kennedy, you're no Jack Kennedy". One of the greatest slap downs ever. I voted for Dukakis, or whatever his name was.

I was very nice.

 
At 5:42 PM, August 23, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think he does it to tork up lefties like you and Durbin. There are more parallels than you are willing to see. History will tell.

 
At 6:37 PM, August 23, 2007, Blogger UMRBlog said...

1742,

I'm sure a cogent, credible list will follow soon.

TYFCB

 
At 6:50 PM, August 23, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Bush Administration looks much like the Truman Administration, which first confronted the Stalin challenge in the Cold War. George W. Bush is a conviction politician just as Harry S Truman was. He has taken his stand, and it will have historic impact, just as Truman's did.

The early years of the War on Terror have been a watershed. Nations around the world have been forced to open their eyes and make their choices. They are doing so now, not because they have been talked into it by George W. Bush, but because they have come to see the same reality he does. Nobody said leadership was going to be easy.

That does not mean that present US policy is going to work without course adjustments. The Iraq War may turn out to be much like the Korean War, a test of American resolve, and also of the limits of American commitment to an important but remote war. At the end of the Korean War, American forces withdrew from North Korea but not from the South. Because of that American willingness to hold firm, South Korea grew into a formidable bulwark against Asian Communist expansion, as it remains to this day. China's new prosperity can be attributed to the democratic capitalist successes of South Korea, Japan, Singapore and Taiwan, all of them dependent upon American support. We cannot predict the outcome in Iraq, but somewhere in the Middle East a defensible line will emerge against jihadist Iran, and perhaps against newer threats.

 
At 7:40 PM, August 23, 2007, Blogger UMRBlog said...

First para is just a non-measurable opinion on your part. Can't be tested empirically.

Nobody but Cheney, Wolfy and Perl saw any connection of Saddam's Iraq to the Al Quaeda threat. It was then and is now a side trip. Not at all comparable to Korea where a foreign state breeched the 38th parallel. The regional politics are so different in the land mass generically referred to "Arabia" from the Korean peninsula that it's fatuous to compare them. SoKo's had no choice but to become an ally. The option was to become fish food.


Your third paragraph is cheerleading cloaked as predictive analysis.

This is either your first rodeo on this topic or you think it's mine.

TYFCB. It's good to have a true believer participate. Pass on the Kool Aid, though.

 
At 7:51 PM, August 23, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Not sure how many rodeos you've been to, donesn't really matter. Other than the fact that these are very different wars, your postion is also your opinion, only.

Truman was unpopular for a variety of reasons, but mainly because of the war in Korea. Bush is also unpopular for a variety of reasons, but mainly because of the war in Iraq. Truman, the story says, made “the tough calls, and history has rewarded him for it,” while arguing in meagerly qualified words that Bush’s resolve in Iraq is unrealistic, foolhardy and stubborn.

But, of course, Truman was seen as unrealistic, foolhardy and stubborn during his tenure as president. Some thought his administration mismanaged the Korean War and some say to this day that it was a mistake, even if we know it kept millions of people out of communist slavery and diminished the power that would otherwise have gone to the still dangerous North Korea. Is it utterly inconceivable to tyouthat Bush’s policies of fighting back against terrorism will some day be recognized as being as crucial to world freedom as Truman’s policies were for containing communism, or that we might see how the Iraqi war was simultaneously a tough call and a wise call?

The Truman lesson is that perspectives change as events unfold and the emotions of the moment dissipate — distance can make the heart grow fonder. Bush certainly has his faults. Truman certainly had his. But at Bush’s core, just as at Truman’s, there is a virtue that you correctly recognized in Truman, even if you are loath to recognize it in Bush. The man has political courage. It’s a virtue that may yet be shown as having been vital to America’s interests, and that may cause future generations to look back on him with kind thoughts. Rah fucking Rah!

 
At 6:19 AM, August 24, 2007, Blogger UMRBlog said...

0751,

It is not my opinion that the Bush administration invaded a sovereign country within its own boundaries. That's a fact. It is not my opinion that the NoKo's breeched the 38th parallel. It's a fact.

It is not my opinion that we've never been given the metrics to identify victory in Iraq. That's a fact.

What in the world are you talking about?

TYFCB

 
At 7:53 AM, August 24, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

You must learn to read. I acknowledged different wars, though not illegal as you seem to claim.

You ignore the parallels I laid out. They're good ones. I thought you said this wasn't your first rodeo.

 
At 8:04 AM, August 24, 2007, Blogger UMRBlog said...

Gee, Easy Reader, I guess I'll have to go back and check where I said the foolish incursion into Iraq was illegal.

I'm not the challenged reader here.

Your comparison had no metrics.

TYFCB

 
At 8:44 AM, August 24, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Really nice to see someone give umr some comeupins. He always invites comments them like to jump on the commentor and lord his worldly knowledge of everything in the world. A self proclaimed expert at everything should be on a world tour but we little people in little ole Quincy are so lucky that he has decided to help us out. He has showed me the error of my ways so often. Thank you Jesus for umr!!

 
At 9:03 AM, August 24, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I wrote "seem to claim", because it does. You should state your positions more clearly. It makes the discussion more interesting.

If you don't think it was illegal, then my parallels become even more relevant apply whatever metrics you deem necessary. You support the surge, I would have to guess that you and Bush might agree at least in part on what would deem it successful.

Once again, try not to such a fucking smart ass. Makes you look petty.

 
At 9:21 AM, August 24, 2007, Blogger UMRBlog said...

When one does a comparison, one compares and/or contrasts events. Truman's military effort was in response to a foreign invasion of an ally. Bush's was the invasion of a foreign sovereign living within its boundaries. Any opinion I might have about its legality would not be comparative.

And, yes, I supported the surge, as it was advertised. If you go back and read what I wrote about it then, I made it pretty clear, I was not departing from my original position the invasion was poorly conceived. It was simply that this president and his cronies had gotten us into this soup and the surge was the best of a bunch of bad options, given that the original mistake had already been made.

If you try to engage on the topic at hand instead of starting with your raw, undigested opinions, it might provoke responses from me that you find less petty.

 
At 9:35 AM, August 24, 2007, Blogger UMRBlog said...

0844,

Let me continue in showing you the error of your ways. It's "comeuppance".

Looking at your choice of adjectives, you are either a dwarf, are disappointed in the herbal remedy you sent for on the internet or you have a comprehensive inferiority complex. Of course, there's another possiblity. You could just be inferior. Decide for yourself.

Oh, BTW, you miss the part about where we publish and respond to contrary views, even when they call me names?

TYFCB

 
At 10:06 AM, August 24, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thank you Jesus again. Now UMR makes fun of my height. I r not a college graduate like your highness but I'd hate to think my law career peaked in Quincy. Why don't You sue Bush for his illegal invasion of Iraq. Show us your balls, go for it. If you are on such great legal grounds. Hang on, my herbals are running out!! Back later.

 
At 10:18 AM, August 24, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey UMR

Did you vote for Dukakis too?

 
At 12:21 PM, August 24, 2007, Blogger UMRBlog said...

Sigh,

Not your height...your intellectual footprint.

What's your problem with Quincy? Why do you live someplace you hold in such low esteem. I live here because I choose to. Pick another place if you don't like it.

Just a little hint. This portion of this thread was not about whether something was illegal or legal. It was a comparison of Truman's behavior and Bush's. At least the other anon tried.

Take comfort in the now famous word of Mother Theresa "Jesus loves you. Everybody else thinks you're a butt."

Thank you for taking so much time out of your life to contemplate what you think of me (or at least my bloghost incarnation.)

 
At 12:51 PM, August 24, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

It was a comparison of Truman's behavior and Bush's. At least the other anon tried.

Tried? I'd say he/she ate your lunch counselor.

 
At 1:56 PM, August 24, 2007, Blogger UMRBlog said...

You'll have to explain to me what factual comparisons of Harry to Shrubbie he ate my lunch on. Do you just cheelead or can you actually reason?

TYFCB

 
At 2:22 PM, August 24, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

UMR 156

Let me continue in showing you the error of your ways. It's "cheer lead".

 
At 2:47 PM, August 24, 2007, Blogger UMRBlog said...

No,

I think, in your case, it's Kool Aid Drinker. Happy Weekend in Jonestown.

TYFCB

 

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