QUINCY ILLINOIS: ANTI-GANG EXPERTISE OUT THE WAZOO
Recently, I have been astonished and proud to discover that so many local folks, not involved in police work, are so very well versed in anti-gang police strategy and tactics. These clever folks have suggested several innovative tactics such as gratuitous beatings, abandoning all other forms of police work and racial/xeno profiling. How very innovative.
Interestingly, most everybody seems to agree that QPD has done a really good job over the last 20 or so years of discouraging outside organizers and agitators, interdicting the drug activity that makes gangbanging profitable and gathering intelligence to use in gang suppression. Of course, these same deep thinkers have concluded our local police have forgotten how to do that. Curious. I guess they conclude it's not like riding a bike.
Even more intriguing, when the five kids were killed in the fire, nobody said QPD was not doing enough to discourage arson. When the young woman was stabbed by a guy from another town, nobody said QPD was not doing enough to prevent passion/anger crimes.
Finally, how do these experts know what gang interdiction actions are being undertaken by QPD now? If they don't know everything QPD is doing now, how do they know it's not enough. ESP, I guess. These recent commentators are really, really smart anti-gang specialists. They even know that what they don't know is still just "not enough." Are you following in that? Maybe nothing our guys do is gonna be enough for the spectating braniacs. Just a possibility.
Perhaps it's just easier to assume others are lazy or stupid or both.
I'm reminded of Wilt Chamberlain on public expectations "Whatever I do, it's never enough."
posted by UMRBlog @ 01:44
35 comments
35 Comments:
So you have knowledge of on-going anti-gang activity by the QPD.
Please, share that knowledge with us.
So you have knowledge of ongoing anti-gang activity by the QPD.
Please----share that knowledge with us.
I thought you didn't comment on city policy.
I can answer both of these brilliant comments with the same reply.
The post is about the insanity of of assuming a police department with an intelligence arm, a Street Crimes Unit and a history of establishing power shifting as needed is merrily going along currently without any comprehensive anti-gang activity, strategy and/or tactics. It's kind of like assuming the Water Department doesn't make water or the Sanitation Department doesn't pick up garbage.
It is really not a difficult read. The post is about the peanut gallery, not about any city policy.
Thus, the response is just typical of the ongoing braniac-yacking I am seeing and hearing.
Some people prefer to believe that trained, professionals are somehow not up to their jobs. I prefer to start from the assumption they know what they're doing, until they prove otherwise. Colin Powell, Condi Rice and Mark Penn would be examples of relatively recent vintage.
TYFCB
Correction Mr. UMR
The Water Dept. does not MAKE water, they TREAT the water.
They make river water into drinking water and the larger point is well illustrated by the way I wrote it.
TYFCB
Now Uncle Tony ,
I think we should always question everything Government does. I think Grants for seat belt has the public perception of a waste of time shaking the money tree.
I also think City vs Tookie would have been a huge loss 10 years ago. Back then and in your time as ACDA , Jurys took the side of the Police .
Right now with all the new "contact" policies , jurys and people are sick of it . This is just not good policing .
I really think people should ask questions and work with our Police Admin to maybe try another route.
I have way too many close personal friends on QPD , but I would do them an injustice if I did not question certain policies .
Maybe you and Les Sachs went to the same DEMOCRACY school , but mine esp classes taught by James P told us to question EVERYTHING .
Note to bloggers: City Attorney does not readily accept constructive criticism, even when coyly corrected on water issue. FYI, nobody has cost efficiently produced new water by combining 2 parts hydrogen and one part oxygen. The water treatment plant is called that for a reason, get it?
Now the real issue. I think the fine citizens of 'Q' are just a little upset concerning the timing of the unrelated arrest of five hoods. Kind of appears to be a reactive move to an alledged screw up on QPD's part.
One thing is for sure, the chief is just like you in that he never admits an error. Never EVER.
Do not question the police. Great message.
Find a way to secretly funnel the seat belt grant money into fighting real crimes, such as the current "Crisis in the Hood". You know, Ollie North style!
You can't be all "by the book" when you are dealing with sophisticated Chi-town hoodlums. Be creative.
Does this thing work?
How do you justify the high number of seat belt tickets doled out, when it doesn't appear that doing so increases usage?
It is a fundamental tenet of rep. democracy that governnment be questioned and be accountable.
My beef is with commentators just assuming , out of wholecloth, that professionals are not performing in keeping with their training and are ignoring obvious problems. There is no evidence for that proposition.
Nobody has argued here that we have some patriotic duty to no criticize our elected officials or our public servants.
Re-read the original post and find where I said there was anything wrong with criticizing the police. It's just not there.
What I can't process is "Dead Parolee....therefore Quincy Police are Soft on Gangs" Hah? (Que Aflac Duck).
TYFCB
No what you did is questioned the "peanut gallery" and therefore assumed that we are not informed.
I call this the " Les and Sachs" style of looking down from the Mountain top.
QPD is like a sand wedge shot ..... too much swing and your screwed. I was around during Chuck's CRACK DOWN on Gangs times . So was a fine ACDA and friend of mine.
But what we have going on is a damn near full fledged Citizen's revolt over the "free money grants" .
This has to stop . If you had been riding Shotgun with me when I "broke" City OV over music , you my friend would have turned RED .
I was treated like a THUG and I do not like that attitude. I guess everyone learned a lesson that day .
But not everyone is me , and I think they are all treated like shit . This does not sway well .
I also think the Police and Fire Commission needs to be over hauled . The Cronie shit has to end. This Commish needs to be free of all bonds to whatever Admin is in place.
p.s. : Ask the QPD guys & gals that know me . I am their biggest fan , but I will never be a Pom Pom girl for bad tatics and bad policy .
Don't get too dizzy while you back peddle.
Tookie,
The burden's still on you to identify what's not being done in terms of anti-gang activity. You contend that traffic enforcement is detracting from anti-gang activity. Peachy, what isn't being done? The only thing I've seen you identify is random beatings which are illegal anyhow.
I'm still looking for intelligent suggestions from the peanut gallery instead of wailing about details past. It doesn't seem to me that's too much to ask. Nobody said you're uninformed. You know stuff, great. What would you add that's not already present?
And you're too smart not to know that the F&P Commission doesn't make law enforcement policy.
Leave the autobiography behind and talk some policy. Good ideas can come from anywhere.
TYFCB
1032,
Where's the backpeddle? I said the peanut gallery is not adding anything useful. Care to start?
TYFCB
Umr
Do you believe that QPD is doing everything it can in terms of anti-gang activity?
Dear Uncle Tony ,
I will give insight to those who will use it . But over my NOT dead body will I offer free insight to the Spring Admin. Hell I would not piss on this Admin if it were on Fire .
But you should know me well enough by now , I will always help , I just won't help Spring direct .
:)
Seems like a great Pow Wow tonight .
Took'em-ups,
Helping the police with your good ideas is not helping any Mayor's administration. Except for some budgeting jawboning, the Mayor has no administrative authority over the police chief. Chief's selected by the Commission and confirmed by the council. "Chuck's" anti-gang initiative was Wilson/Devoss'. Street Crimes Unit didn't come from any mayor. Gang intelligence unit didn't come from any mayor.
If you wanna help the police, help the police.
TYFCB
1845,
I saw some room for improvement about two months ago. I put my thoughts together--here's a radical approach--and shared them with the Chief.
Fair question. TYFCB
Umr 619
What were those thoughts and did they implement them?
What lead you to the conclusion that improvement was necessary?
The thoughts were what is known as attorney-client privileged.
You mean "led". My own eyeballs. Behavior of certain folks in the downtown area, in the courthouse and in public places. Whole lot of people I didn't know showing up with people I did know who had no business (based on their family histories) acting the way they were acting. Also, certain folks with no visible means of support started flashing money, never a good sign.
Gave me a few thoughts.
TYFCB
"My beef is with commentators just assuming , out of wholecloth, that professionals are not performing in keeping with their training and are ignoring obvious problems."
Wonderfully spin UMR, Love the way you have changed the premise of everyones arguments against the QPD. From what I have read on most the local blogs it was never a question of QPD's training or abilities, they were questioning the QPD administrations priorities.
Your obviously going to come to thier aid when you can because of your position and history with the department.
Quite honestly I wouldn't do the same had I been in your position. If I remember correctly the last time you asked for thier aid they slapped you in the face. You must be a much less vindictive person than I as you have turned the other cheeck.
"Except for some budgeting jawboning, the Mayor has no administrative authority over the police chief."
(The following comment is not meant as a criticism towards the Spring Admininisrtration in any means and should not be taken as so)
UMR, I'm throwing out the BS card! Because what you just stated is complete and utter BS! The mayor has every administrative authority over the Police and Fire Commission. He has the authority to change the makeup of that commission to members that will do his bidding or have the same department vision he has in under 2 years time (only needs to change 2 of 3). He inturn has administrative authority over the Chief of Police. It make take a little time but it is possible (if the chief likes his job) and you know that fact.
On another note:
From what I am reading, hearing over coffee etc. . . The general public seems to be pretty fed up with the traffic stop approach of policing that our current QPD administration seems to be using as their MO.
We have a new young Police chief that I honestly think is trying to do his best despite any prior experience. His experience as a patrol officer seem to be leading him down a agressive yet comfortable path. He and they need to realize that the general public aren't the departments enemies and shouldn't be looked at in this manner. 90 something percent of the community generally want to like the officers and its leadership. They just need to be given reasons to do so.
There would probably be a lot less public complaint if the deparment would go back to more of a community style policing. Maybe an old wardog like yourself could guide them into a different approach the public would be much more receptive too.
;)
another note:
When the Sheriff Fischer took over his position (with about the same amount of experience as the current Police chief) he hired a number 2 guy with a lot of experience and community respect.
He always had Bill Anderson to go to for advice when needed. Bill worked with Brent a few years and now has turned the number 2 job over to Kientzle. Bill helped Brent get his feet wet and helped train Fred for the position that soon would be his. During the transition period and now there are very few situations that the Sheriff's department has come under the same public fire as is currently being seen by the QPD.
Maybe Copley should be looking for a number 2 guy with this type of experience while the public still thinks he is transitioning into a new position? This may inevitably help his longevity as our respected Chief.
;)
p.s. see I can still be constructive.
So...where we you all when there was a community meeting at Redmon Lee the other night? Sitting at home, sniping? Get out there and LISTEN! There are multiple layers to this and related situations, and room for improvement all around. Get out there and do something about it...or tape your proverbial collective mouths shut!
AGQ,
Let me take your fourth paragraph first. As only you know, it is even worse than you stated.
As you also know, that's very personal and there are some folks who happen to work in law enforcement I can never again look at in the same light. That's personal. It doesn't impact the respect I have for Quincy Police Department as an Agency and as a service provider.
Certainly none of that has anything to do with the command staff.
For 32 years, in one function or another, I have been involved in trying to help QPD internally and defending it from unwarranted attacks. I believe the blissful assumption that the PD can't walk and chew gum at the same time (as in write traffic tickets and interdict street crimes) is silly. It's like saying QMG shouldn't do a walk-in clinic because it takes attention off its specialties. The blissful assumption is literally based upon nothing.
"New Chief" is an interesting formulation. The guy's been in charge for more than four years. I didn't hear anybody calling Bill Clinton the "new" president in 1997.
I know you know the story of when the last time a Mayor tried to discipline a sworn chief. Think about that one and tell me you really think a Mayor can impact the resource allocation of the sworn departments in any direct, meaningful way. It's a nice theory that a Mayor waves his magic wand and impacts the mission of the PD or FD but it's not the way it works. Can a mayor make any department head's life miserable? Sure. Can he directly impact Sworn Department policy? At the margins, at best. You're arguing that the whole theory of the commission removing sworn service from politics is B.S. It's never worked out that way and designed not to.
If you can point out to me some sensible commentary beyond "Traffic Enforcement takes away from gang-fighting" and "Seat Belt Tickets make people not love QPD!" that was out there when I put up this post, I'll be glad to consider it and admit it had value. I'll even concede that Tookie has put up some worthwhile stuff since: a) I put this up; and b) Rob got back to town. I don't count "Ron Dreyer's not a good public speaker." as worthwhile or particularly important.
You know I value your opinion and like to have you stop by....Still, I'm afraid you've been standing too close to Tookie's radio and temporarily damaged your brain.
Finally, I know I disagree with you at my peril because you're the guy responsible for all bad things that happen to people in the Q. I heard it from the SOURCE!
TYFCB...some people just think they know stuff. You really do know stuff.
First, I do pick up the radio waves that you state from time to time, but this in no means formulates nor affect my opinoins on matters. I get my info from the same sources, locations, etc. . . that have worked for me for years (not the inner circle guys from either side) and then formulate my own opinion. If its not broke don't fix it.
Wow, Its been 4 years! (time flys when you get married, have a kid, start a new business and try to become a responsible adult - yes the last of which is the hardest)
Since it has been 4 years, then its a pretty good thing the current Chief is not in the same position the Sheriff is after 4 years. From what I hear on the street his job approval rating would run somewhere in the area of our current presidents. Thats unfortunate seing as I believe he has the best intentions.
(note: The Bill clinton analogy doesn't work for me, He was a former governor prior to being president. Same duties minus foriegn affairs just on a larger scale.)
You as well as anyone know that politics is about perception. Right now the perception on the streets of Quincy is that QPD priorities are such that they think traffic tickets are more important that real crimes and criminals (ie gangs etc...) The public is falling into a dangerous area where they are starting to distrust the very people that are supposed to protecting and serving them. Its a vicious and unfortunate cycle if it continues.
When people go through a "roadside safety check" leaving a somewhat affluent neighboring township on thier way into work, then they are going to question motives. Especially when most of those individuals are law abiding members of our community and were just made late for work. (know several that went through this)
When these same people see QPD issued 200 plus seatbelt tickets in 2 consecutive months thier thoughts of the administration continue to fade.
These same people drive around town, though local parks etc. they see gang graffiti etc. . . They know that there are gangs in the area. The public isn't stupid.
We have not one but two gang related shootings (one death) in the same day. It doesn't happen in one of the two neighborhoods that 90% of the public would assume it would happen. Creates a bigger uproar and puts QPD under a public microscope.
Police dog bites handler. (hope he is doing better) Dog owners wonder why we have a dog of this nature and spent this type of money on it. Fondly remember prior QPD dog, its handling officer Baird. Remember former dogs ability to be handled in a community atmosphere. (schools, events, etc. . .) Public wonders why we now have a dog with such an ill temper that it can not be used as a tool to help teach our children that police officers are thier friends. (most people knew about this prior to the Quincynews.org article, it went through the coffeshops a couple days prior)
For the average citizens in our area this all adds up (via simple math, 1+1=2)that our police department has a problem with our priorities. They don't have to dance around doing algebra or trig to come to these conclusions. They want an end to the stringent traffic control and want better community policing. Pretty logical progression.
Looties previous comment I saw in regards to having the wrong person answering questions and giving interviews was pretty accurate. It didn't seem to help the publics perception at all.
Unfortunately, you were not the person answering or being interviewed. I am sure that you would have handled it much differently. Or at least showed up for those interviews with some offsetting data to influence the public perception.
I mean really! How difficult would it had been for QPD administration to show up to those interviews with a number of outstanding warrents they had allready served this year and the number of probable gang members they brought in on charges this year. "We have served 500 outstanding warrents and brought in 40 probable gang members. Unfortunately these 6 were involved in this event while we were investigating and trying to bring them in"
If they are doing thier job as you stated (and I'll take you for your word, its always good with me) Why did they not produce something more tangible for the public to sink thier teeth into?
They've unfortunately lost he publics trust and need to get it back for the betterment of our entire community. Maybe its time to take a step back and look outside the traffic ticket box.
As far as the Mayors administrative abilty over the Chief. (once again no critcism towards the Mayor or his direct administration, so no one reading this should interpret it as such) I think that would be a much more twisted, calculated and entertaining conversation over a cup of coffe someday.
take care,
;)
p.s. you got it all wrong! i'm not responsible for doing everything and controlling everything that happens on the web in Quincy. I just get accused of it.
p.s.s. damn! I wasted too much time on this! knew there was a reason I tried to avoid reading these blogs. need to get back to work!
Hey Rob got home and really tackled the entire problem head on . What I enjoy about Rob is people can work with him , no matter what side they are on .
I enjoyed the fact that he laid out a clear and matter of fact plan to combat this problem. He did not pull punches and laid out a path.
I really think that the summer of 2008 will be known as the Summer Q-Town became unfriendly to gangs .
I also enjoyed the fact that he placed the blame on the economic base of the BUYERS. Drug dealers with out paying clients move on .
I have always said it is a PUBLIC PERCEPTION problem that is hitting QPD . It isn't an ability to do the job problem .
I also stand my ground that our Police and Fire Commission needs to be re-vamped . I would love to see a Bob Mell or an Anderson on the Commission . There are great retired firemen out there , maybe Bonebreak or someone .
Then add a member of the local business at large. Right now we have cronies and Dick .
I also see a need to get back to PCPD ( Positive Community Police Department) . This is a mental attitude that "we are here to help" ..........
It is a change that starts at the top and trickles down to the brand new Patrol man .
And there is Zero compairison between Rob and Ron . Ron had a temper fit , while Rob laid everything out in a very logical manner.
I call it leadership.
Also my radio has new Hip Hop in it . I burned a new cd yesterday some Wu-Tang , ODB , Public Enemy .......... just doing my civic duty .
:)
Unrelated, but check out QN.org's article on the exchange between alderman Bumbry and Copely at last nights CC meeting! Fascinating, simply fascinating!! Hey UMRB, your case that QPD is not paying too much attn to seatbelts and speeders as opposed to NW Quincy drug/gang activity) is getting weaker by the minute, better opt out for a plea. Is that bad thing when an alderman is a witness to a drug deal? Also, I hear there may be an outdoor "nightclub" down there operating in the city street without a license, better get on that UMR, at least make em by a license, if nothing else! Also, you don't need a radar detector to witness a drug deal going down!
You're right UMRB, it's totally out of the question to ask QPD to shift focus from seatbelts & speeding to overt drug and gang activity in the good ole NW Quincy area, especially in light of the discussion your alderman and police chief just had in a CC meeting!
Keep up the focus on the speeders and the seat belts, by gosh, and let em party at the 9th St. club w/ the gang, and do some slingin up there also! Right on!
My argument is the an urban police department can walk and chew gum @ the same time.
I heard the discussion between two valued friends of mine last night. I was at the meeting. Each was carrying out a different mission. Both did what they set out to do. More heat than light.
The argument that, in effect, all policing activity should stop to combat the drug gang issue is fundamentally wrong. The argument that traffic enforcement is somehow mysteriously mutually exclusive of successful street crimes suppression is borne out of a fundamental misunderstanding of how general patrol policing and special details complement one another.
That an alderman tees up a department head does not change that.
TYFCB
Honestly, if I'm (and likely any John Q. Public Joe 6-pack job worker, taxpayer, parent, walk a straight liner) driving down the State or Broadway, 24th or 36th, etc I can literally sense, or anticipate, police presence, whether the police are there or not, and am that much more on my P’s and Q's, trying to make sure not to speed, have belt on, etc, due to the recent traffic enforcement efforts. Like no other time in 40 years of living in Quincy do I feel as "surveilled" in Quincy just driving down the road as in recent times. Not like I’m doing anything wrong, but I, and likely everyone else, has the mindset that “better do it right or will get nailed”.
Is it too much to ask that the drug dealers in "NW Quincy" be made to have that same sense of anticipation, police presence, and trepidation in their minds? That’s all I’m asking.
Let's break this baby down and simplify it! For example, if QPD were have 5 or six officers working seatbelt and school zone patrol, cut it back to 3-4, and put the other 2-3 on "NW Quincy" detail, or something like that. That's all.
It's likely a perception issue, made worse by the recent alderman's statements. Just want to be assured that the QPD’s priorities are appropriate, and appropriately flexible.
If such steps could be made, and the chief announce them, that would be great. Right now the perception is that QPD said they were going to pull everyone over for every little minor offense, but the thugs are selling crack in palin view of an alderman.
Post a Comment
<< Home