THE GI BOOTSTRAP GAMBIT: HONORABLE AND LAME IS STILL LAME
There is a new trend going around in the letters-to-the-editor crowd and the in blogoshere.
It can generally be described as "I am a veteran and, therefore, I know stuff....."
Folks write in, mention their honorable service, and launch into a speech about the First Amendment, the Second Amendment, Hydropower, Purina Gerbilchow, or Credit Default swaps and urge us to follow their lead, whatever it may be, simply on the credential of their honorable service.
As one myself, I venerate the service of all those who served honorably. But, please, folks, don't ask us to believe that because you shot expert on the range or were really good at reading sonar returns, you know how to run a school system, state department, public golf course or city council.
Reasoning rises or falls on its own merits, not on the historical accident that the declarant once did a great thing.
Colin Powell served heroically, then became Cheney/Perle/Wolfy's poodle.
Veterans are wrong about stuff too, me included.
posted by UMRBlog @ 02:09
36 comments
36 Comments:
It might help your argument if you could provide some examples that illustrate your claim of this "new trend".
UMR
You should counter this mass hysteria with a letter to the editor of your own demanding that citizens stop mentioning their military service when supporting the First Amendment. Good luck with that.
But, please, folks, don't ask us to believe that because you shot expert on the range or were really good at reading sonar returns, you know how to run a school system, state department, public golf course or city council. Is it OK with you if a former combat veteran uses the fact that they put their life on the line to bring freedom to an oppressed people, using the freedoms that they enjoy as an American to drive home the point that they should continue to enjoy those same freedoms at Quincy City Council?
Furthermore, "the historical accident"? Does it stop being an "accident" after the second, third or fourth voluntary tour?
Yes. All you professionally trained military veterans shouldn't step up and act like you can undertake the complicated task of running a city council. You need to leave that to a professional and experienced fundraiser like John Spring.
I'm so hoping that was your legal advice to Spring for next week's city council meeting.
Oh come on, I know you work for the guy, but don't insult me by pretending to miss the point.
If your keeping score, Spring lost this one.
0524,
If you're not seeing or experiencing the phenomenon about which I posted, then I leave you in your comfort. My "argument" doesn't need any "help." If it has traction for some people, we'll discuss it. If not, that's OK too.
TYFCB
0600,
The post was about bootstrapping. Honorable service does not equal unique knowledge.
Supporting the First Amendment is a good thing. Understanding its reach would be a marvelous first step.
TYFCB
0740,
I'll run back through the original post and try to divine what it has to do with "running" "city council" meetings.
What's the Frequency, Kenneth?
TYFCB
0717,
Unless the topic is combat, it adds nothing to a commentator's body of knowledge on a non-combat topic that he had multiple voluntary tours.
It makes a nice emotional appeal of the type you just attempted but it doesn't create expertise where there is none.
As an example, a combat veteran who is now a blacksmith comments on our banking system can be fixed. His views may be correct, useful and patriotic in nature. Still, they stand or fall on their own merits. They are not braced by the historical event that he was in the military or in combat.
"My comments are more inciteful because I am a veteran" is a false premise.
I say that placing about the highest value on military service of anyone you are likely to meet. Intellectually, however, bootstrapping is still bootstrapping.
TYFCB
Observer is correct. You did, and continue to miss the point. Selling out for tool like Spring speaks to your character, or lack thereof. I look forward to your letter to the editor.
0756,
Veterans, Bootstrapping........Legal Advice.....?????????
Sure, Clyde. Keep the tinfoil tightly around your head so those aliens can't invade your central nervous system. Art Bell's coming to save you.
TYFCB.
OB 0857,
Thank you, I think, but what the Hell are you talking about? Mayor's not a veteran and he's never said anything like 'Hey, I was in the Army and I know about hydropower because I carried a canteen!"
TYFCB
1210,
You choose to attack my character for "Selling Out" in some undescribed way, about some undescribed subject matter, to somebody you call a "tool".
Here's where "anon" is a problem. If you were Frank Strieby or Parker Gates or maybe Joe Bonansinga, then folks could easily, and maybe properly, be influenced by your views. But you're nobody, by choice, by camouflage.
So the reader gets to make some "core belief" assumptions about you. Mine include you're a pedophile with an incredibly close relationship with your pet ewe, you scratch your herpetic lesions and eat KFC without washing your hands and your mother moved and left no forwarding address so you wouldn't move into her basement again.
If your gripe about me is that I'm loyal to those who engage my professional services, I can live with that. If your gripe is that you have some personal beef with Mayor Spring, this is not the complaint window for that.
If you want to post Anon, I have no problem with that, except when you you want to do character evaluation. Then your platform is relevant.
Now, let's move on to whatever the Hell you were attempting to talk about. Nearly as I can tell, the mayor hasn't taken any action on anything involving a veteran since his second term began. Perhaps you'd like to explain, in a way that's at least marginally related to this thread, what official action the Mayor has taken that I've somehow "Sold Out" to?
You're a guest here. Try not to wipe your ass with the curtains.
What happened UMR? Did you step on a nail or something? Seem awfully testy today.
OB,
Not at you. I had to explain the blank slate in a vivid way anon character attacker.
I don't have any problem with folks who have principled disagreements with me. It's preferable if they relate remotely to the thread topic but I don't mind engaging on thoughts. Surely there has to be a higher and better use for the Web than just saying "You Suck!". That's drive-by discourse.
Now that you mention it, I did once step on a nail and it went all the way through my foot. The thought of that sight (I saw it before I felt it) still gives me goosebumps.
TYFCB
Well UMR, you are true to your Democratic Party, always putting the military down. When a citizen mentions he is a veteran, he is simply letting you know he has more than earned the right to speak. Nothing more. The fact that you seem to take offense to someone identifying themselves as a veteran mazes me. You didn’t have any problem posting the fact that you are a veteran on your website. Why make an issue out of it? Hmmm, seemed to remember you’re a big friend of Bill Clinton the draft dodger who was no friend of the military. Just wonder if there is any connection???
Umr
I don't think anyone has done what you are claiming. The only reason military service has been brought up, and correctly so IMO, is they are saying something to the effect of, "hey, I served x number of years in the military defending the Constitutional rights of Americans. I think it's a disgrace for this mayor and council to not allow this guy to speak." Or in the case of the guy who they wouldn't let speak, "I didn't spend x ....for these little shits, who btw work for me, to not let me tell them that I believe what they did is wrong and why."
I find it hard to believe you think what your party and your mayor did was right. Defending it is where you are selling out. It's wrong. No point in discussing if you think what they did was right. Any bets on whether or not they let him speak this week?
11:51
Can you give an example of the trend of which you say this is happening? ID one letter to the editor?
"I am a veteran and, therefore, I know stuff....."
Bushie,
First, I didn't diss anyone's service. As I pointed out, I happen to be a veteran, legion member and VVA member.
What I'm pointing out is people using their service to legitimize their positions about things for which they have no unique knowledge.
Aren't you usually above stuff like this, suggesting I'm anti-veteran because I'm a friend of Bill Clinton's.
Read carefully what I have written and tell me where I dissed anyone's service ever. I'm the guy who wrote a letter to the editor disagreeing with my own county chairman that George W. Bush's Reserve Service (back when we thought he had some) was honorable and to be applauded, not minimized because he "got out of" Vietnam.
Of course, it's much easier to generalize about some words that make a buzzer go off than it is to actually read them and place them in context.
You've been a little bit of hot streak. "Guilt by Association" and "dissing" veterans charges constitute major backsliding on your part. I find that regrettable. Hope you can go back to being constructive.
TYFCB
1641,
Re your second paragraph: I don't think I've defended or attacked anything that happened last Monday. Whatever it is you think the Mayor did that I "defended" is going to have to be pointed out to me because I was at the meeting and I didn't see him do anything but count the votes--That's what the Chair is supposed to do and ALL he's supposed to do.
So if there's a "Sell Out" what got sold out? Get somewhat factual
TYFCB
John Kerry is a vet
UMR 6:10 PM
How about this? Do you agree with what the democrat aldermen did?
"What I'm pointing out is people using their service to legitimize their positions about things for which they have no unique knowledge."
Just point out one example of this. Just one.
Just remember...Hitler was a veteran too.
QNO's copyright, from May 4
"The City Council (evening session) refused to hear from the Quincy Tea Party spokeperson, Steve McQueen, along a party line vote of 7-6.
What is the City Council afraid of hearing? As a veteran of the United States Navy for 30 years, I find it deplorable for the City Council to refuse for Mr. McQueen to exercise his First Amendment Rights."
Note that the writer's military service adds nothing to his understanding of Constitutional Law or Parliamentary procedure. THe only purpose for mentioning his service is to somehow induce the reader to find his comments more authoritative than they would otherwise be taken.
To this guy's credit, he wasn't anonymous and he later made it clear he didn't know Jack about the first amendment. But none of that is the point of this post. It's the use of veteran status to bolster an otherwise unschooled opinion, legitimately held, perhaps but not any more authoritative than if it came from a Bowling Alley operator or a steamfitter.
There was also a flurry of these last year regarding the use of the local High School Bands for a certain parade. There were also a few around the the time of the prez election but I couldn't do a quick scan and find them.
I hope this helps illustrate my point because it was obvious some where picking it up--perhaps because they didn't want to. It's so much easier just to bash public figures.
Thanks to all for your interest.
1848,
Since I have no legislative role, I don't second-guess votes of the council. There is no legal question that what the council did was lawful and has nothing to do with the First Amendment.
TYFCB
Umr 10:30 AM
That's hardly an example of
"It can generally be described as "I am a veteran and, therefore, I know stuff....." '
or that this guy claims in any way that because he was in the Navy that knows how to "run a school system, state department, public golf course or city council."
It's just not in there no matter how much you stretch. There is no trend either. Not on the subject of the dems blunder anyway. The only thing lame is your post.
Umr 10:34 AM
And therein lies the sellout. Would you have voted no?
1311,
I don't see where I limited the trend to any one topic. You're the one hung up on this one recent event.
TYFCB
1312,
It's a "sellout" not to discuss my clients' decisions after the fact in a public forum? That's an interesting statement of principle. particularly given that was not the topic of the original post anyhow.
TYFCB
UMR, you're right on. About the only useful thing I learned during three years and four months in the U.S. Army is that some light colonels are assholes.
"I don't see where I limited the trend to any one topic. You're the one hung up on this one recent event"
Jesus man. Put the lawyer speak away. It must take you an hour to order a pizza. " no, no I said I like pepperoni, not that I want it on my half". You called it a new trend going around in letters etc., yet you can't produce even one letter. You won't say how you would have voted because the city is your client blah, blah ZZZ. Man up dude.
1742,
How fitting, a manhood challenge from a nameless, sexless anon.
TYFCB
W was in the ANG, sometime, somewhere, I think, or they said he was, LOL!!
Gosh, that's a new, clever argument.
TYFCB
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