Thursday, September 20, 2007


Video's on YouTube. This man (whom I formerly admired) actually said there are "Too many Mosques" in this country.

Uh, Pete, there are exactly the correct number of Mosques in this country. The number roughly equals the demand, just like any other house of worship. Generally speaking, our Mosques feed children, put on cultural events, welcome new people to new towns, educate folks of other religions in the basic doctrines of islam.

In case nobody's noticed, many of the attendees at american Mosques happen to some of our highest achieving and most charitable citizens. Just for an example, Quincy would be much the poorer without out Muslim brothers and sisters.

Pete, I have two pieces of news: 1) You're a bigot, and an opportunistic one at that; and 2) there is no rightful place in either of our political parties or our congress for a bigot.

You lost your way. Take a seat on the sidelines.


At 10:14 AM, September 20, 2007, Anonymous Sean Heeger said...

That kicks ass T Cam...hahahahaha

At 12:16 PM, September 20, 2007, Blogger TOOKIE said...

Check your email

That will show you a TRUE pissed off moment

At 1:26 PM, September 20, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

You know what he meant. He wasn't talking about Joe Shmoe going to mosque. He's talking about radical and suspicious types.

At 2:13 PM, September 20, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Not sure about that supply and demand thing. King is not from Quincy, IL.

Who funds the mosques and Islamic centers that in the past 30 years have set up shop on just about every Main Street around the planet?

We've gotten used to one-way multiculturalism: The world accepts that you can't open an Episcopal or Congregational church in Jeddah or Riyadh, but every week the Saudis can open radical mosques and madrassahs and pro-Saudi think-tanks in London and Toronto and Dearborn, Mich., and Falls Church, Va. And their global reach extends a little further day by day, inch by inch, in the lengthening shadows, as the lights go out one by one around the world.

At 2:36 PM, September 20, 2007, Blogger Zakiah said...

I couldn't have expressed my opinion with such ease and finesse. The times are bad and the "delicate" and 'intricate' philosophy of certain groups of people borders on to prejudice. Can you blame a lame sitting duck, when the highest authority in the nation is inadvertantly publicising his view in thoughtless, and preconcieved accusations that involve Muslims?
May The God of all Prophets bless you always for standing up to the truth and helping the under dog. Wish the country had more people like you to take charge, and become leaders.

At 5:41 PM, September 20, 2007, Blogger UMRBlog said...


Watch the vid. He was given an a clear opportunity to back of the bigoted part of his statement and he declined. It is you who don't "know what he meant."

At 5:59 PM, September 20, 2007, Blogger UMRBlog said...


Oh, yes, the tiresome "One Way Multiculturalism" position and the "inch by inch" argument.

I think I'll stick the with argument the brave founders of this country found persuasive (and, no, they weren't all Christians), that you can't have real liberty without the freedom to worship and with the Government favoring one faith over another.

You asked a question that deserves an answer. Who supports Muslim worship centers in this country? People like a jewish doctor friend of mine, an atheist dentist friend of mine, a devout Roman Catholic and avid supporter of private religious education and non-radical whitebread Christians like me. And, yes, I am at peace with Gonzo and his boys tapping my phone because of it.

BTW, you paint with too broad a brush on the Dearborn thing and, last time I checked, London and Toronto are lovely places but not subject to the U.S.'s guarantee of religious freedom. In fact, I seem to vaguely recall something about some folks in funny hats leaving GB for North America to establish some religious freedom. Perhaps that notion, like the Geneva Convention, is now merely quaint.

If you're making an argument that we should become religiously intolerant because Saudi Arabia is run by a$$h*l@s, you are contending to eradicate the difference between us and them.

When I hear "One Way Multi-Culturism" my automatic bigot deflector shield goes up.

Still, TYFCB. It's important for folks to see that people actually says stuff like your submission with a straight face.

At 7:47 PM, September 20, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

umr 559

Do you think we (us government) should keep an eye on these folks? More of an eye than say the Catholics?

I'm sure the Muslims down on Main St are not the ones we're talking about here, so don't get all caught up in yourself.

NO one is saying that we make Islam illegal.

Do you believe there is a radical movement that operates under the banner of Islam, drawing inspiration from its scriptures, traditions, and jurisprudence? ...and that it is growing in the US?

At 7:56 PM, September 20, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

umr-you should take some time and study the mechanism producing the home grown London Tube bombers.

At 8:29 PM, September 20, 2007, Blogger UMRBlog said...

Eyeball 1957,

To answer your question, I think we should keep an eye on anybody about whom we have probable cause or actionable intelligence of seditious activities. I don't think we ought to have an official position on how many of what kind of houses of worship exist in the US of A.

BTW, how did we initially detect the Buffalo, Chicago and San Diego cells? Financial intelligence analysis. Have at it! Much smarter than some kind of broad brush profiling.


At 8:33 PM, September 20, 2007, Blogger UMRBlog said...

mechanic 1956

You mean the part about a whack job going to a peaceable mosque and recruiting some young men to come over to a whack job mosque?

I think that's an argument for keeping an eye on whack jobs (perhaps with the help of peace-loving Muslims) instead of suggesting all Muslims and all Muslim houses of worship are evil.

Thank you for worrying about my mechanical education.

At 8:48 PM, September 20, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Since multiple question posts are too complicated for you, I'll address one at a time.

"instead of suggesting all Muslims and all Muslim houses of worship are evil."

Where did I "suggest" this?

At 6:30 AM, September 21, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why can't the Muslims police themselves? All Arabs don't seem to be able to do anything without adult supervision. Dig up the Jap-American model used in 42 and use it now, at the right time.

At 6:40 AM, September 21, 2007, Blogger UMRBlog said...


Why can't Roman Catholics police themselves? Latinos? Redheads?

You have escalated bigotry from advocating locking people up based upon national origin to locking them up based upon religious persuasion.

TYFCB and for being such a beautiful object lesson.

At 6:45 AM, September 21, 2007, Blogger UMRBlog said...


If you want to have a dialogue about each word of your acutely insightful posts, you're gonna have to use a handle. You can adopt a handle and still be anon.

Do, however, keep in mind that I started this blog so I could write about stuff that interests me. Hold open the possibility that I don't find some of multi-part examination papers interesting. It happens.

You may be the same anon to whom I've suggested this multiple times already.

At 6:47 AM, September 21, 2007, Blogger UMRBlog said...


You watched the vid yet? Your correction is awaited.

At 7:05 AM, September 21, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

So you can't identify where I suggested all Muslims and all Muslim houses of worship are evil, because that's an important starting point.

One more chance.

At 7:21 AM, September 21, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

umr 647

I watched the vid. I agree he had the chance to back off his original statement and did not. I don't agree he was advocating burning down mosques. Do you? Here's his additional statement:

On Wednesday, the congressman said: “The quote was taken entirely out of context by Politico. My position in this interview, as it has been for many years, is that too many mosques in this country do not cooperate with law enforcement. Unfortunately, Politico was incapable of making this distinction.”

Do you also disagree with that statement?

It's difficult to have a meaningful debate when you pick and choose to discuss only those subtopics that support your argument.

z (there's that handle you needed)

At 8:35 AM, September 21, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Haven't seen the video and not even going to look. Not until I can recall the last time I have seen a muslin leader on tv or anyplace else taking the radicals to task for their violent views and actions. Doesn't happen. Nothing wrong with Peter King, you just like to find some perceived moral high ground to bash a republican. Your very easy to figure out. How about the woman who was just stoned to death in Iran. Where do all your muslin friends stand on that? they don't want peace just world domination.

We see their hate filled raging on tv every day and never do we see the local muslin population say anything about the radicals. The silence is deafening!!! And how about all the freedom the muslin women enjoy............. And how about the religious tollerance the muslin countries practice????
Go blow smoke up someone else's ass. It was 100% muslin mfr's who flew those planes into the towers and they cheered around the muslin world.

At 8:43 AM, September 21, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

You mean the part about a whack job going to a peaceable mosque and recruiting some young men to come over to a whack job mosque?

That's what happened. Now the mechanics. You know, what causes these guys to become "whack jobs".
There will no charge for this portion of your mechanical education if you can't come up with it on your own. Or just pretend it doesn't interest you.


At 9:11 AM, September 21, 2007, Blogger UMRBlog said...


They always issue revised, buffed statements after they reveal their true feelings. His buffed statement is irrefutable and also off the point of what he said and reaffirmed. I am not attributing any "burn down" thought to him. I'm happy to take him at his own words there are "Too Many" mosques. Since he's a legislator, I assume he will soon propose a legislative solution to this proliferation.

He said a stupid, bigotted thing. You didn't. He did.

Making Politico the bad guy (which, in some other contexts they may well be) is just the old "Fade-the-Heat" tactic, overused by the Clinton team and now beat to death by any wounded Republican. That bad things arise from some mosques is no reason to complain about their existence. You're smart enough to tell the difference. I formerly thought King was. I truly meant I was previously an admirer.

Now, to further the ridiculous game of word-tag, I never said you said Muslims or Mosques were evil. That position, however, is a fair inference of what King meant.

All of this raises an interesting point. What the Hell was he thinking when he got the opportunity to recant and didn't take. Applying the most generous possible view to it, I have two theories. First, he was just so badly upset by the noise interruption that caused them to stop the interview that he couldn't think straight. Second that this is some unique-to-New-York required posture and he just sold out expecting bigotry to be rewarded later at the polls. He has negated my third possibility with his sanitized written statement which, in effect, says "I didn't mean what I said and reaffirmed. The Webmag made me do it!"

TYFCB and for the handle.

At 9:46 AM, September 21, 2007, Blogger UMRBlog said...


I can only hope you don't have children. It's not fair for kids to learn religious bigotry at the dinner table.

First of all, you show yourself to be voluntarily ignorant by commenting on something you haven't even seen. Some people are deprived of knowledge and it's not their fault. You have elected to remain ignorant. That much of your comment is literally indefensible.

Then you blame the conduct of Muslim leaders for your elective ignorance. That is bootstrapping with broken straps.

Of course next you decide to psychoanalyze me and how I just look for pretexts to rip Republicans. That's a nice theme but go back and check who I've been ripping for about the last 60 days. Stupid is as stupid does.

For your next trick, you talk about a stoning a foreign country and how there has been no outcry from local Muslims. OK, and that has what to do with whether King was off the reservation with his bigotted remarks? Is it: All Muslims are evil or support evil so that justifies intolerance against them as a category?

Then we turn to TVLand and "hate filled rage". Again, this is just the "I saw Muslims on TV doing nasty things so all Muslims must be nasty" argument.

You improve a little when you point out that many "Muslim" countries are religiously intolerant themselves. If you stayed with that thought a little while, you would be on the road to enlightenment. Hey! That's the difference between us them. Government here is required to be a secular undertaking and religious freedom. If King-think pops up in our government, there'll be no difference between us and them.

Then you say there has been no local outcry by area Muslims for peace and harmony. Man, you don't get out much, do you? Just to give you two examples: two local physicians have done circuits of area churches and shared the peaceful doctrinal writings of the Qoran with multiple groups. In each case they have renounced violence both in religious doctrine and personally. Just because it didn't pop up on your TV doesn't mean it didn't happen.

In a triumph of role reversal you tell me to "go blow smoke up somebody else's ass..." Uh, last time I checked, I was the host of this site. Come in, don't come in. I don't care. I would prefer you stayed. Kind of like Cuba or Romania, you serve as an excellent museum peace for outdated and narrow worldviews.

For your socko-boffo closing, you cleverly point out that all the hi-jackers were Muslims. All the Auschwitz command staff were Catholics. Are there two many Catholic Churches.

Then you complain that there was no outcry after 911 from the western Muslim community. You must have been on the Cartoon network. There were tears and prayer services here, St. Louis, Toronto, San Francisco, Cedar Rapids and Chicago that I know of. There were outreach educational programs in all those places and more about distinguishing Islam from some radicalized view of it. The number of Muslim volunteers in the Armed Services spiked for a brief period after 9/11. So you're either making up your own facts or using irrefutable facts to justify your own bigotry and King's.

I fully realize this isn't going to cause you grow at all but maybe somebody will read this exchange and learn something from it and maybe some solid citizen Muslims can come in here and supplement what I've said.

At some level it took courage for you to write something so steadfastly ignorant. I thank you for letting our readers glimpse inside an attitudinal world they may never have visited.


At 9:51 AM, September 21, 2007, Blogger UMRBlog said...


Ya think the support of peaceloving Christians and Jews for peaceloving Muslims and their worship centers is any different in Kansas City or Omaha or Jonesboro Arkansas?

I can tell you it's not. Part of it is just good will. Part of it is recognizing that we never know who they're going to come for in the next KrystalNacht. If we don't learn from the past, how the Hell are we going to improve on it.


At 10:00 AM, September 21, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Tony, go have lunch with Dick Turban and talk about what nice people the muslims are. Invite some relatives of 9/11 victims.

At 10:26 AM, September 21, 2007, Blogger UMRBlog said...


Is that your best? Really? Is that all you've got? Bad things happened on 9/11, All muslims are bad, and being acquainted with a US Senator you don't like makes me soft on our REAL enemies?

Take night class or something. That's pitiful.

At 11:09 AM, September 21, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

King later said, “The quote was taken entirely out of context by Politico. My position in this interview, as it has been for many years, is that too many mosques in this country do not cooperate with law enforcement. Unfortunately, Politico was incapable of making this distinction.”

Tell the WHOLE story next time, in the right context! You were a law enforcement guy, you should understand.

At 12:21 PM, September 21, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ya think the support of peaceloving Christians and Jews for peaceloving Muslims and their worship centers is any different in Kansas City or Omaha or Jonesboro Arkansas?

There may very well be no difference in those areas, but it is also true there has been tidal wave of Saudi cash washing up on our shores could potentially be problematic.

Google the Islamic upbringing of Asan Akbar, the black Muslim Army sergeant who, after killing two and wounding 14 of his fellow soldiers when he hurled a grenade into a tent in Kuwait, ranted, "You guys are coming into our countries and you're going to rape our women and kill our children."

It is happening, from Boston to LA to New York and Jersey.

It's not so much a case of paranoia, as it is a realization that Saudi money has an eerie habit of popping up around Islamic extremism the world over.


At 12:34 PM, September 21, 2007, Blogger UMRBlog said...


See above, that bandaid comment has already been trotted out and commented upon.


At 12:40 PM, September 21, 2007, Blogger UMRBlog said...


We're in complete agreement about the insidious Saudi Money. My belief is that is best handled through probable cause and actionable intelligence.

An overlooked source of such information can be people of good will who spot anomalies in their midst. It can and does happen. A lot of good americans pray facing east.

I do not think you're overestimating the Saudi influence threat.

At 12:47 PM, September 21, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

What do you mean by "actionable intelligence"?


At 2:22 PM, September 21, 2007, Blogger UMRBlog said...

It isn't so much what I mean by it as it is a term of art in HS. I take it to mean relatively reliable info that falls short of enough for probable cause to obtain an overhear or a search warrant. It would be the kind of thing that generates the use of resources for advanced surveillance and perhaps even tapping Humint sources, if available.

In the Chicago/Chechnya case actionable intelligence eventually morphed into probable cause.


At 2:57 PM, September 21, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...


You'll forgive me for not reading the "above", simply responding to your post. Interesting that 2 comments independently clarified the quote and illuminated your post as partisan spew.

At 3:18 PM, September 21, 2007, Anonymous Sean Heeger said...

I thought this might be a good reference...

At 3:27 PM, September 21, 2007, Blogger UMRBlog said...


There is nothing to forgive. Choosing to remain purposefully ignorant and uninformed ultimately has its own consequences. Nuthin' to me.

TYF sort of coming by.

At 6:52 AM, September 22, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

umr 222

Would you condone infiltrating these mosques and Islamic centers?

At 5:25 PM, September 22, 2007, Blogger SENOR ORACLE... said...

Wow! Your adverary must have posted 10 or 20 comments without accusing you of being gay or a socialist. I guess he's going to wear out the terrorist sympathizer angle on first. I didn't read his posts close enough to see if he called you a hater of America. It was reassuring to see one of the deluded right wing fools still calls Senator Durbin "Dick Turbin."
They're not getting any smarter, although that's no surprise.

At 4:02 PM, September 23, 2007, Blogger UMRBlog said...


Fair and provocative question.

If there actionable intelligence that a cell was formed and discussions were being had about terror activities, yes. Usually the cells meet separate and apart from the worship centers.

To simply put an agent into a house of worship to see if he would be recruited or hear something would be a tough pill for me to swallow. First, there is the principle of the government not interfering with worship choices. Second, it really does sound like a poor application resources.

The hard one would be when somebody comes to the authorities and wants to work. I think then you have to be alert to a Chalabi or a "Curveball" but I wouldn't rule it out. In any enforcement posture you always screen infomants based upon a number of criteria, so the volunteer scenario is a maybe on a short leash.

At 6:58 AM, September 24, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

UMRB, get ya a table for three at Columbia U chow hall, you, Dick, and you know who.

At 2:09 PM, September 24, 2007, Blogger UMRBlog said...


There about 1000 permissible, anatomical replies to your whack job comment but I'll limit myself to three:

1. Anytime you want to match understandings of Iranian culture and history, you know how to find me;

2. I have volunteered to bear arms against the enemies of my country, so feel free to peddle that crap someplace else;

3. What have I ever written here, or anywhere, that suggest any empathy for this whack job or a belief that he's even a real head of state?

Next time, try to contribute something useful.

At 7:41 AM, September 25, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The problem with Iran and the US can be summed up by the actions of one man: Kermit Roosevelt. 50 years later and his blunders still prevail.

At 12:48 PM, September 27, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

RICHMOND, Va. — Gov. Timothy M. Kaine examined online videos Thursday that show a man he appointed to the state Commission on Immigration condemning Israel and advocating "the jihad way."

In a video that appears on YouTube, Muslim American Society president Dr. Esam S. Omesh is shown at an August 2006 rally in Washington denouncing the invasion of Lebanon during that time by the "Israeli war machine."

• Click here to see the video of the August 2006 rally.

Omesh, chief of the division of general surgery at INOVA Alexandria Hospital, also accused Israel of genocide and massacres against Palestinians and said the "Israeli agenda" controls Congress.

In a separate, undated video, Omesh tells a crowd of Washington-area Muslims, " have learned the way, that you have known that the jihad way is the way to liberate your land."

That video was credited to Investigative Project, a Washington-based organization that investigates radical Islamic organizations.

A caller to Kaine's program on WRVA radio in Richmond asked the governor about the Omesh appointment and the video.

"That is news to me, what you say, and it's something we will check out," Kaine told the caller, identified on the air only by the name Kent.

Neither Kaine nor The Associated Press was immediately able to contact Omesh. Mahdi Bray, a spokesman for the MAS, said Omesh was performing surgery and not immediately available for comment.

Omesh was among 10 appointments Kaine made on Aug. 2 to a 20-member panel created this year by the General Assembly to assess the benefits and costs of immigration and the effects on federal immigration policies on the state. The commission met in Richmond for the first time Tuesday.

Just a little old doctor helping out. Think the FBI should be checking out his mosque???

Like I said before, they are smooth on the surface and just waiting for their chance to do damage. Why not, for 70 virgins even Tookie would do you.

At 6:05 PM, September 27, 2007, Blogger UMRBlog said...


Omesh may be a dangerous man and may be a Muslim. Therefore, we should infiltrate and investigate all Muslims and Muslim organizations. That's your apparent syllogism.

Sacco and Vanzetti were Catholic;

The Rosenbergs were Jewish. Rusty Calley was a redhead.

There is no civilized place to end such reasoning without destroying ordered liberty.



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